Pro Craps
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  • Welcome to Pro Craps
  • The Pro Craps Method
  • Money Management
    • Bankroll Control
    • At the table: Rail & Session
  • Craps Theory
    • Respect the 7
    • House Edge
    • Odds
    • Probabilities
    • Exposure
    • Variance
    • Trends and Streaks
  • Who Are You as a Player?
    • Your "Personality"
    • Bankroll and Play Style
    • Goals and Play Style
  • Approach
    • "Paycheck" Mentality
    • Home Run Swings
    • 3 Phase Play
    • Grinding It Out
    • Short Stack
  • Craps Toolkit
    • Building a Strategy: Overview
    • Know Your Bets
    • Hedging
    • Pass & Come Odds
    • Dark Side Odds
    • Playing with "House Money"
    • Opening Moves
    • Pressing Concerns
    • Pressing Patterns
    • Positive Progressions
    • Negative Progressions
    • Regression
    • Streak and Trend Betting
  • Strategies
    • Line Betting
      • Progressions
      • Parlay Press
      • Baccarat
    • Dark Side Strategies
      • Vitamix
      • Backwall Lay
      • 3 Point Dolly
      • Dolly Ladderson
    • Light Side Strategies
      • The Mind
      • 3 Point Johnny
      • The Dallas Drawdown
      • Philly Special
      • Tier Pressure
      • 4/10 Plays
      • The Red Cross
      • Come Ladder
    • Hybrid Strategies
      • 555 - 6, 7, 8
      • Hedgeless Horseman
      • The Odds Maker
      • The Border
      • The Butterburg
    • Side Bets & Good Times
      • Hardway Parlay
      • Marching Soldiers
      • DIY Repeater
  • Dice Control
    • Framing the Issue
    • Goal: 7 Avoidance
    • Goal: Targeting Numbers
    • Epic Randomness
    • Overcoming Randomness
    • The Case Against Dice Control
    • Unpacking the Studies
    • Parr Toss
    • Chopper Toss
  • Practice
    • Betting
    • Dealing
    • Throwing
    • Leaving
  • Notes
    • Resources
    • Golden Throws List
    • Upcoming Videos
    • Upcoming Podcast Topics
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  • A War on Many Fronts
  • Notes

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  1. Dice Control

Epic Randomness

Mechanics, Physics, and Mentality of the Perfect Toss

An awful lot has to go right for a dice controller to get it done, and the casinos aren't making it easy. In fact, if you're trying to control the dice, you're at war with the casino, the rules, table itself, and the very nature of physics.

  1. You cannot slide the dice (they have to be airborne and bounce)

    1. No 2 table surfaces are alike

    2. They are getting bouncier and bouncier so you cannot simply "learn" how to land

  2. You have to hit the back wall

    1. It's got alligator skin / spikes to ensure randomness

    2. Some places actually force you to hit it hard

  3. Some casinos have banned setting altogether.

It should be noted, that these measure would not be in place if it were not possible for humans to control the dice.

Dice Controllers will concede that every throw is random. Their job is to try and lessen the degree to which things are random by eliminating some of the combinations through technique and physics.

A War on Many Fronts

For the dice to come to rest, a number of things have to happen after they leave your hand

  1. They will hit the table at least once (likely more)

  2. They will hit the back wall

  3. They will hit the table again

  4. They will come to rest, settling on a number

Perfection or any level of control requires you being able to maintain control on the dice during each of those phases. The trouble is that that each phase impacts the next, so if you're 10% off to start, that gets compounded in the next phase, and so on. And in fact, even perfection at the start can lead to imperfections during the action.

The Table

The table itself is a huge problem. Mainly because no two are alike. If every table was the same you could potentially "dial in" your toss in terms of velocity, height, angle, etc. But you have these variables and more to contend with.

Note that these variations are not there to stop dice controllers. Many of them are for cosmetics, utility, fitting in more people, maintenance, etc. But they still cause us problems.

  • Length: 10'-16'

    • SL1 on one table is like SL3 or the hook on another

  • Depth: 11" - 14"

  • Rail width: 18" - 10"

  • Wood Surface type: Pine, Birch, Slate, Glass

The Underlayment

Again, no two tables are alike. And this is an area where the casinos definitely are experimenting with different surfaces to promote both longevity of the cloth as well as epic randomness.

Each of these has different properties that are good for the table's longevity (or not), but also have a completely varying degree of impact on the dice and how they come to rest, and how physics works in the end.

  • Nothing

  • Vinyl

  • Flannel

  • Newspaper

  • Cork

  • Neoprene

  • High Density Closed Cell Foam (Volara)

You will experience a massively wide variety of speed, side spin, and a a decreasing ability to stop the dice from rolling around. Many surfaces simply to not absorb energy at all.

Cork introduces side-spin and low energy absorption

Neoprene is hard rubber packed close that rebounds, therefore not absorbing as much energy

Closed Cell Foam is basically bubble wrap. There's no surface area to absorb the energy

The Back Wall

This is 100% put there to stop controlling the dice. The alligator skin back wall exists to randomize the dice, and every casino has a rule stating that you must hit it. Were it not for this, there's not a person in any capacity at any casino that would argue against dice control.

There are only a few suppliers of these, so they are pretty consistent.

  • They are hard rubber

  • There are typically 5-7 rows of diamonds

    • Based on table depth, and how much fascia they are willing to expose

  • The bottom section is angled up to force the dice up into the diamonds and to squirt the dice out on a down hit.

Physics

There's 3 big concepts here to understand

  1. Energy Reduction / Absorption

  2. Angles

  3. Surface Area

Energy

For an object to come to rest, a force needs to be applied to it to retard it's acceleration. With dice, that means that as the die hits the table, it's going to do with 4 major factors:

  1. Velocity at the time of impact

    1. This tells us how much energy we have to get rid of to stop them

  2. Angle that it hits the surface at

    1. If you don't land the dice flat, they simply will not slow down in any way you can control

    2. The more they move, the more chances they have to randomize. Remember, every "hit" impacts the next hit

  3. What % of its surface area makes contact

    1. This is a factor in retarding the velocity/energy

  4. How much energy is absorbed by the surface

Knowing those factors, you can apply math to see how slow the dice will be moving after impact. And that equation is repeated and repeated until they stop.

Note that from table (potentially multiple times) to the wall and back, acceleration will both decrease and increase depending on what the dice hit (hands, chips, the back wall, etc)

Angles

The angle of the dice has an impact in a few areas

Note: Show still shots of the dice in good and bad positions, show video of what happens when they are square and when they are not!

  1. At impact, the more surface area making impact, the more energy is reduced.

    1. This slows the dice down and potentially reduces spin

  2. How square was the landing (in which direction will they re-launch?)

    1. Cut edge hit perfectly flat?

      1. Direction and axis has a chance to be maintained

    2. Corner or side Hit?

      1. Complete loss of directional/axis control

      2. Any non-square hit = randomness

  3. What direction are we hitting the wall?

    1. Flat/Straight? You might have a chance to hit the diamonds squarely

    2. On any angle? The diamonds will impart side spin

      1. If they hit the diamonds on the point or a side vs the underside ... again, you will encounter side-spin which is ... random.

Surface Area

  1. The amount of surface area that contacts any surface has a direct correlation to the amount of energy reduced from the object in motion

    1. If you don't land the dice flat, they simply will not slow down in any way you can control

    2. If they hit the diamonds on the point or a side vs the underside ... again, you will encounter side-spin which is ... random.

Notes

Videos/Clips Needed:

PreviousGoal: Targeting NumbersNextOvercoming Randomness

Last updated 2 years ago

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