Pro Craps
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  • Welcome to Pro Craps
  • The Pro Craps Method
  • Money Management
    • Bankroll Control
    • At the table: Rail & Session
  • Craps Theory
    • Respect the 7
    • House Edge
    • Odds
    • Probabilities
    • Exposure
    • Variance
    • Trends and Streaks
  • Who Are You as a Player?
    • Your "Personality"
    • Bankroll and Play Style
    • Goals and Play Style
  • Approach
    • "Paycheck" Mentality
    • Home Run Swings
    • 3 Phase Play
    • Grinding It Out
    • Short Stack
  • Craps Toolkit
    • Building a Strategy: Overview
    • Know Your Bets
    • Hedging
    • Pass & Come Odds
    • Dark Side Odds
    • Playing with "House Money"
    • Opening Moves
    • Pressing Concerns
    • Pressing Patterns
    • Positive Progressions
    • Negative Progressions
    • Regression
    • Streak and Trend Betting
  • Strategies
    • Line Betting
      • Progressions
      • Parlay Press
      • Baccarat
    • Dark Side Strategies
      • Vitamix
      • Backwall Lay
      • 3 Point Dolly
      • Dolly Ladderson
    • Light Side Strategies
      • The Mind
      • 3 Point Johnny
      • The Dallas Drawdown
      • Philly Special
      • Tier Pressure
      • 4/10 Plays
      • The Red Cross
      • Come Ladder
    • Hybrid Strategies
      • 555 - 6, 7, 8
      • Hedgeless Horseman
      • The Odds Maker
      • The Border
      • The Butterburg
    • Side Bets & Good Times
      • Hardway Parlay
      • Marching Soldiers
      • DIY Repeater
  • Dice Control
    • Framing the Issue
    • Goal: 7 Avoidance
    • Goal: Targeting Numbers
    • Epic Randomness
    • Overcoming Randomness
    • The Case Against Dice Control
    • Unpacking the Studies
    • Parr Toss
    • Chopper Toss
  • Practice
    • Betting
    • Dealing
    • Throwing
    • Leaving
  • Notes
    • Resources
    • Golden Throws List
    • Upcoming Videos
    • Upcoming Podcast Topics
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On this page
  • Quotes
  • Exerting Control
  • The Goal ...

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  1. Dice Control

Overcoming Randomness

To overcome randomness, you need perfection. If you start with the assumption that you have a 100% chance to achieve perfection, then you can think about this issue by replacing perfection with bits of random, until there's nothing left. This is the argument against dice control.

Even 1% from perfection = random.

Can you do all of these things, perfectly ... and still overcome the roadblocks we've already talked about?

  1. Grip

  2. Swing

  3. Release

  4. Launch Angle

  5. Velocity

  6. Landing Descent Angle

  7. Landing Approach Angle

  8. Landing Flat

  9. Landing Distance

  10. Number of rotations

Other than maybe the grip, every one of those has to be not only perfect, but different for every table and for every inch of distance and position/side you are at the table, even between throws.

Quotes

NOTE: Show these quotes during the episode as titles while you're talking

"You can control everything up to the point at which they leave your hand"

"Once they hit the table, all you can hope for is that you've set them up to succeed"

"It's in God's hands once they hit the wall"

"Dice only stay “ On Axis” roughly 2-3% of the time after contact with the back wall"

"A set will only make your mechanics shine or hinder your result. Sets are a medium of expression of ones mechanics. Not the guarantee to a successful throw." (George)

"Yes there are other factors affecting the final result but if the toss and throwing form is solid it reduces tremendously the randomness. Therefore I wholeheartedly agree the set plays a part. It's still part of the equation" (Jim Spillane)

"there is no such thing as "on axis" because its impossible for dice to be on axis all the way through the toss. On axis is straight line through both dice, so if either dice is not straight even a hair its already off axis"

"Dice have a way of humbling even the most experienced shooter."

Can you do all of these things, perfectly ... and still overcome the roadblocks we've already talked about?

Exerting Control

What happens when we land?

  1. Dropping the dice from .5", 1", ...

  2. Flat

  3. On Edge

  4. Different surfaces

  5. With momentum

  6. With momentum and backspin / sidespin

How do we control that and get it to the wall under control?

  1. Launch and decent angles

  2. Some sort of spin

    1. Absorbs and disperses the energy

    2. Helps to land with the right faces up

  3. Hit it straight on to reduce scatter

Quotes

"Control is regained when the result is interpreted by the shooter and the adjustment of set (at its easiest level) or grip and toss and release and landing zone (at the highest level) is adjusted for the next toss" (George)

"My definition is controlling the dice on the ( X,Y & Z) axis from starting point to landing or impact. Theoretically this will make the dice land as close to the flat surface as possible, reducing the kinetic energy as they move towards the back wall on first bounce. After impact, if close together should rotate forward, kiss the back wall, re-land and settle." (Toro) ... emphasis on "Should"

The Goal ...

It's an impossible task. Nobody is calling their shots. Remember the actual goal ... reliably make the 7 appear 5/36 times instead of 6. The closer you get to eliminating the epic randomness, the closer you get to making the goal possible.

If the steps you take to achieve that goal result in clusters of numbers, that's a nice side benifet, and it potentially makes sense how that could happen, but this is all still random, and we can't forget that.

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Last updated 3 years ago

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