Pro Craps
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  • Welcome to Pro Craps
  • The Pro Craps Method
  • Money Management
    • Bankroll Control
    • At the table: Rail & Session
  • Craps Theory
    • Respect the 7
    • House Edge
    • Odds
    • Probabilities
    • Exposure
    • Variance
    • Trends and Streaks
  • Who Are You as a Player?
    • Your "Personality"
    • Bankroll and Play Style
    • Goals and Play Style
  • Approach
    • "Paycheck" Mentality
    • Home Run Swings
    • 3 Phase Play
    • Grinding It Out
    • Short Stack
  • Craps Toolkit
    • Building a Strategy: Overview
    • Know Your Bets
    • Hedging
    • Pass & Come Odds
    • Dark Side Odds
    • Playing with "House Money"
    • Opening Moves
    • Pressing Concerns
    • Pressing Patterns
    • Positive Progressions
    • Negative Progressions
    • Regression
    • Streak and Trend Betting
  • Strategies
    • Line Betting
      • Progressions
      • Parlay Press
      • Baccarat
    • Dark Side Strategies
      • Vitamix
      • Backwall Lay
      • 3 Point Dolly
      • Dolly Ladderson
    • Light Side Strategies
      • The Mind
      • 3 Point Johnny
      • The Dallas Drawdown
      • Philly Special
      • Tier Pressure
      • 4/10 Plays
      • The Red Cross
      • Come Ladder
    • Hybrid Strategies
      • 555 - 6, 7, 8
      • Hedgeless Horseman
      • The Odds Maker
      • The Border
      • The Butterburg
    • Side Bets & Good Times
      • Hardway Parlay
      • Marching Soldiers
      • DIY Repeater
  • Dice Control
    • Framing the Issue
    • Goal: 7 Avoidance
    • Goal: Targeting Numbers
    • Epic Randomness
    • Overcoming Randomness
    • The Case Against Dice Control
    • Unpacking the Studies
    • Parr Toss
    • Chopper Toss
  • Practice
    • Betting
    • Dealing
    • Throwing
    • Leaving
  • Notes
    • Resources
    • Golden Throws List
    • Upcoming Videos
    • Upcoming Podcast Topics
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On this page
  • Intentional Shooting
  • Sniping Numbers or Group Targeting?
  • If you could do it ...
  • How does a controller try and do it?
  • So what's the problem?

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  1. Dice Control

Goal: Targeting Numbers

Are Dice Controllers targeting specific numbers? Groups? ... or are they really just hoping for the best?

Intentional Shooting

An intentional shooter is exactly that -- someone that throws with the intent of hitting a single number or a number within a small group of expected numbers.

Sniping Numbers or Group Targeting?

Although 80% of the dice controllers we surveyed said that their #1 goal was to avoid the 7, only half of them pick a dice set that tries to do that. Nearly 40% choose a set that targets certain number groups. Seems like an odd divergence, so we dug deeper.

We dug deeper and the dice controllers we've spoken to will tell you that they're not targeting a specific number, nor can they reliably hit it. The consensus is that based on the combination of the dice set chosen, and the shot type that they use, they expect results to:

  • Favor Horn Numbers, fail to the 7 and settle on a box $ for the come out rolls

  • Avoid the 7 and establish a "pitch count" or expected roll length (SOR)

  • Cluster box numbers

  • Produce "dominant" numbers

  • Perhaps favor hard ways over easy numbers

They will also all concede that every throw is random. Their job is to try and lessen the degree to which things are random by eliminating some of the combinations through technique and physics.

"You can control everything up to the point at which they leave your hand"

"If you can keep them from dancing, they'll sit down for you, hopefully close to the way you let them go"

"Once they hit the table, all you can hope for is that you've set them up to succeed"

"A set will only make your mechanics shine or hinder your result. Sets are a medium of expression of ones mechanics. Not the guarantee to a successful throw." (George)

If you could do it ...

WinCraps examples (simple and quick)

Run a scenario at standard distribution and with the 7 at 5, favoring the appropriate numbers and more-so the hard way versions of the even numbers

Come Bets

  • Requires numbers are repeated (asserting the set is locking in)

  • No odds -- not about profit, but simply proving that we're getting scoring hits

How does a controller try and do it?

Reduce the amount of randomness by hiding some of the 36 combinations

  • Dice Sets

    • Demonstrate a couple of them, focusing on how they target numbers and hide the 7

    • Resources:

  • Keep the dice "On Set" or deviating from the expected set of restricted possibilities

  • Throw types

    • Backspin (Parr or GTC)

    • Foreward Spin

    • Side Spin (Helicopter)

    • No Spin (Knuckleball)

    • On-Axis

    • Off-Axis

So what's the problem?

The Table Fights Back

  • 3 Points of Impact

    • Table

    • Diamonds

    • Table

  • Different surfaces, curves, lengths, rules

Show some slow motion showing the landings skittering and mayhem and leave that as a teaser for the epic randomness video

Controllers bet over their skill

Given the amount of randomness in every throw, over-betting is a huge issue

PreviousGoal: 7 AvoidanceNextEpic Randomness

Last updated 2 years ago

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HCS:

El Toro:

George From CY:

VDC and CDC: (plus others)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpJKeEHUItk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtxjJ8pAbAs&t=1011s
https://youtu.be/A1OEkFZTUgE?t=2732
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGKN2XNt__I&t=4s